Do you really need long antenna? I noticed zwave can act as a mesh.
mrheosuper 55 minutes ago [-]
another protocol/wireless stack? Why can't we settle down to something that is at least "good enough"?
asveikau 3 hours ago [-]
Doesn't zwave use a different frequency, and zigbee and thread are both 2.4ghz? Perhaps that makes it a more fair comparison?
SEJeff 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, zwave is in the much less congested 900mhz range. It is a fair bit more reliable as it doesn’t compete with:
- WiFi
- Bluetooth
- microwave ovens
Additionally, it’s a bit more strict with certification so you can easily use multiple vendors for zwave whereas with zigbee it’s often a terrible experience since vendors implement things differently in ways that are not as interoperable. In fact, for a device to be certified by the zwave alliance, it must pass strict conformance testing to ensure backwards compatibility and interoperability.
parineum 45 minutes ago [-]
All it costs is significantly more money and less options.
If you limit your pool of zigbee devices to just more reputable companies, you'll end up with around the same amount of options as zwave and they'll be reliable but significantly cheaper.
You also have the option to find some super cheap stuff that works just fine. That usually requires some research but not much. You can also build ESPHome devices for zigbee but that's pretty niche, to say the least.
Having previously been all zwave then moved and tried to go matter but ended up with zigbee, I wish I never listened to people saying what you are. As far as I'm concerned, zwave doesn't know it's dead yet and Matter isn't going to fulfill it's promises because the corporate interests that wouldn't give you local control with zigbee aren't suddenly going to change their minds because it says matter now.
petre 48 minutes ago [-]
On Europe the 860MHz band is subject to more restrictive transmission duty cycles, LBT or FHSS.
some zigbee controllers even support being converted to thread via a firmware update
vdfs 5 hours ago [-]
These protocols add so much complications it makes wifi/tcp/ip a blaze
They fix some problems but add more, you endup just like that xckd about protocols
Forge36 4 hours ago [-]
Having switched to zigbee devices recently I regret trying to start with WiFi. While I'm not sure how it looks under the hood, adding devices with home assistant was miles easier.
baby_souffle 4 hours ago [-]
I've helped lots of people with home automation Network build outs l; the biggest factor is the RF environment.
If you're fortunate enough to not be battery constrained at most endpoints and can put a high quality Wi-Fi access point in an optimal location than Wi-Fi is incredibly reliable.
The tooling for inspecting all layers of a Wi-Fi network is infinitely more accessible and mature and that certainly helps; I can't go to My local big box store and get a USB thread dongle for 20 bucks that will just work on a Lennox computer and integrate nicely with Wireshark out of the box...
Dan_- 4 hours ago [-]
No, you have to order it from Mouser for $16 instead.
Sorry I thought I was removing tracking bits from the URL. It’s fixed now.
hiitsmyaccount 3 hours ago [-]
I have a Unifi home network with two Wifi 7 access points and gigabit ethernet. For home automation, I went with ZWave and do not regret it at all. It's been rock solid and I've never felt the need to get a dongle to debug the traffic. I don't want to be working through all of the WiFi baggage with my home automation devices. I recently introduced some Zigbee bulbs (hue and cheapos from Amazon) and they've been mostly "fine", albeit with lower range.
Gigachad 3 hours ago [-]
Thread is fairly similar to Zigbee, just standardized and doesn't require brand specific hubs. You can actually control thread devices direct from an iphone with no hub at all.
Wifi for anything but cameras is a mistake, it only exists for maximum compatibility since everyone has wifi already.
esseph 3 hours ago [-]
Wifi for cameras is arguably also a mistake
nomel 3 hours ago [-]
Cameras that require internet to connect to are a mistake, but cameras that use Wifi for local link are fine (wifi is perfect for this). And, having some way to connect remotely is a requirement, for most everyone.
rob-olmos 3 hours ago [-]
I took their point to be about wifi being jammable
fragmede 3 hours ago [-]
Yeah first thing burglars are gonna do is jam your wifi camera so you don't have any video of them. Run cat-5 and get a PoE camera.
kps 2 hours ago [-]
And be sure your outdoor cameras are on an isolated VLAN so people can't just plug in to your home network.
3 hours ago [-]
zer00eyz 3 hours ago [-]
> Wifi for anything but cameras
Buttons (key presses, remotes - think rapid input), Knobs, sliders, Pixel LED' strips, some MM wave sensors, ir/radio transmitters, really need wifi.
There is products where you will want a bluetooth proxy, plenty of kitchen/grill thermometers and scales for kitchen and bathroom are great examples.
Where range is an issue LoRa is a thing that has plenty of devices and is easy to DIY.
unsnap_biceps 2 hours ago [-]
My matter over thread devices (inovelli) for light switches work faster and better then my old wifi devices (cync)
deadmutex 4 hours ago [-]
Some specifics would be a great addition to this comment.
jauntywundrkind 4 hours ago [-]
A lot of graphs where OpenThread & zigbee dance around each other, are within 2x of each other.
Two huge notables to me: message throughput for openthreads scales up, zigbee seems to hit a wall early. Not sure when that matters but very clear. The last table was a fright through: it takes half a minute for OpenThreads to recover after a node drops where-as Zigbee a quarter second! Wow.
richwater 3 hours ago [-]
Is there a situation in which your smarthome taking 30s to recover from a node failure is impacting your life? Seems like a distinction without a difference
4chandaily 3 hours ago [-]
Standing outside with an armfull of groceries, and a door is now our of range of your hub temporarily due to the failed node. 30s can seem like quite a while standing in the rain.
AlotOfReading 2 hours ago [-]
Not exactly a strong argument if you need like 5 qualifications to demonstrate the issue. If the right node fails, if it happens right as you walk up, if it's raining, if your porch is uncovered, if your door doesn't have an immediate fallback... I'm sure someone will be affected because of the law of large numbers, but it seems like an unlikely scenario to base a purchasing decision on.
alexjurkiewicz 1 hours ago [-]
Because IOT devices are cheap and networks are ad hoc, flaky connectivity is a likely occurrence. Thread must be reliable in these situations.
https://www.home-assistant.io/connect/zwa-2/
https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zst39-z-wave-long-range-usb-sti...
the zooz is this internally: https://www.silabs.com/wireless/z-wave/800-series-modem-soc/...
- WiFi
- Bluetooth
- microwave ovens
Additionally, it’s a bit more strict with certification so you can easily use multiple vendors for zwave whereas with zigbee it’s often a terrible experience since vendors implement things differently in ways that are not as interoperable. In fact, for a device to be certified by the zwave alliance, it must pass strict conformance testing to ensure backwards compatibility and interoperability.
If you limit your pool of zigbee devices to just more reputable companies, you'll end up with around the same amount of options as zwave and they'll be reliable but significantly cheaper.
You also have the option to find some super cheap stuff that works just fine. That usually requires some research but not much. You can also build ESPHome devices for zigbee but that's pretty niche, to say the least.
Having previously been all zwave then moved and tried to go matter but ended up with zigbee, I wish I never listened to people saying what you are. As far as I'm concerned, zwave doesn't know it's dead yet and Matter isn't going to fulfill it's promises because the corporate interests that wouldn't give you local control with zigbee aren't suddenly going to change their minds because it says matter now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-range_device#SRD860
In the US you also have the FCC reshaping the 900 MHz for industrial broadband and NextNav. So there will be more competition.
https://www.nemko.com/blog/fcc-reshapes-the-900-mhz-band-for...
https://www.landisgyr.com/br/pt/home/knowledge/blog/Navigati...
They fix some problems but add more, you endup just like that xckd about protocols
If you're fortunate enough to not be battery constrained at most endpoints and can put a high quality Wi-Fi access point in an optimal location than Wi-Fi is incredibly reliable.
The tooling for inspecting all layers of a Wi-Fi network is infinitely more accessible and mature and that certainly helps; I can't go to My local big box store and get a USB thread dongle for 20 bucks that will just work on a Lennox computer and integrate nicely with Wireshark out of the box...
Fixed link: https://www.mouser.com/en/ProductDetail/Nordic-Semiconductor...
And there’s a little configuration: https://wiki.makerdiary.com/nrf52840-mdk-usb-dongle/guides/n...
Wifi for anything but cameras is a mistake, it only exists for maximum compatibility since everyone has wifi already.
Buttons (key presses, remotes - think rapid input), Knobs, sliders, Pixel LED' strips, some MM wave sensors, ir/radio transmitters, really need wifi.
There is products where you will want a bluetooth proxy, plenty of kitchen/grill thermometers and scales for kitchen and bathroom are great examples.
Where range is an issue LoRa is a thing that has plenty of devices and is easy to DIY.
Two huge notables to me: message throughput for openthreads scales up, zigbee seems to hit a wall early. Not sure when that matters but very clear. The last table was a fright through: it takes half a minute for OpenThreads to recover after a node drops where-as Zigbee a quarter second! Wow.